THE FOLLOWING IS AN INTERVIEW
ORIGINALLY PRINTED IN
ESKHATOS IN 1995
KURT SAXON: THE SURVIVOR
Come what may, Kurt Saxon will survive. Author of numerous books including
The Poor Man's James Bond Volumes 1-4, Granddad's Wonderful Book of Chemistry
and The Survivor Volumes 1-4, Kurt Saxon is a modern day Renaissance man.
His books preserve a wealth of information from 19th Century technology and
common sense how-to. Kurt teaches a kind of practical survivalist philosophy
far removed from the Rambo-paramilitary stereotype so often used to make
people afraid to prepare to survive that which they fear most, be it religious
apocalypse, natural disaster, dependency upon a fragile and complex commercial
infrastructure, government takeover by extremist elements, or simply a knock
on the door in the middle of the night by the secret police.
His books are like hybrids of the Whole Earth Catalog, Popular Mechanics
and Country Living but with a firm sense of awareness of what we are doing
to ourselves, our society, and our world. They will teach you how to live
absolutely independently, to make anything you need by yourself inexpensively,
how to make your own herbs and medicines (and poisons), how to farm and raise
animals and how to start your own cottage industry so you won't need to serve
as a wage slave ever again. A firm believer in strict population control,
self-sufficiency and the wisdom of doing things the old fashioned way, he
is also an enemy of modern economic mass culture and a fierce proponent of
community and self-reliance. We spoke with him one afternoon before one of
his weekly shortwave radio broadcasts. The following is but an excerpt of
You were brought up during the Depression...
Yes, I saw it. I was there.
...and you also were involved with many organizations which people consider
to be extremist like...
The Birchers, the Minutemen and the Nazis. Then when it comes to the occult,
the Scientologists, the Rosicrucians, the Church of Satan, the Martianists,
UFO people, spiritualists, you name it, I joined it. It was a lot of fun.
How did they influence your ideas as a survivalist and about survivalism?
During the 60's, when I was younger, I was searching for answers. I was
on the right wing, others were on the left and we were all searching for
answers. When it came to the occult, I was searching for answers. Like Buddha.
He tried one thing after the other. There wasn't one thing going that he
didn't indulge in, but it didn't work. So he sat under that bo tree and said,
"To hell with it!" and he thought of the eight-fold path.
I did the same thing as Buddha for my generation. I tried everything possible.
I searched for every answer and found that they were all wanting. Just about
everyone, political and occult, wanted a hand-out. So then I realized that
the only way an individual can free himself from the ills of his society
is to become independent of it. He has to learn to do things for himself,
take care of himself and his loved ones and possibly provide a service for
There are a lot of hypocritical sum that call up my show who think that
they are Christians even though they've never read the Bible. I tell them,
"If you are a Christian and you want to practice your religion, first you
believe that Jesus was the Son of God," I don't, but if they're going to
be Christians they might as well, "then you love your mate, cherish your
children, give your employer and everyone you deal with good work and honesty,
then you will be loved and respected by everyone and if there's a heaven,
you'll go there." That's my philosophy in life. If you are honest and fair
with everyone, and you love your mate and cherish your children then you
can't go wrong, but people don't do that.
I used to be a Storm Trooper, and I was a good one, in the toughest unit
in the whole country but that doesn't mean I'm a Nazi. I used to be a member
of the Church of Satan, right in the middle of it, but that doesn't make
me a Satanist now.
What is your belief system now?
I am non-religious and non-political. It's like Buddha, he got the same
answer, but I'm not going out teaching any sort of religion.
You've stepped beyond all that then?
Yes, I have gotten beyond religion, racism and politics.
Do you feel that nature has made certain "elite" individuals who deserve
or should survive, because of their personal characteristics regardless of
their race or financial status?
I don't know. Genetically, I come from superior stock. All of my siblings
are professional people who are quite intelligent. Both of my parents finished
the 8th grade and went no further. They were ignorant hillbillies, but they
were very intelligent.
A genealogy was done on Abraham Lincoln and they found that although his
ancestors were all dirt poor hillbillies, they were quite intelligent. So
it might be genetics and then, of course, it might be partly environment.
I go for both. But those who prepare to survive, deserve to survive.
Describe where you live and to what extent you are self-sufficient.
Well, I live in Alpena, Arkansas. You wouldn't call it a village but it's
a very small town. It doesn't have a motel or a police station but, of course,
we don't need one, everybody's armed. Occasionally a kid gets out of line
and will burglarize and people will call the sheriff. That's in Harrison
a few miles away, but it's a relatively crime-free area.
Then I've got about five acres surrounding my place with a barn. What
I wanted to build up was the potential for self-sufficiency. You don't have
to work your head off, you can grow things and still buy things at the store.
I don't have any energy self-sufficiency but I don't need it here because
this area supplies all of its own power. All of our power comes from local
sources, not like New York or Chicago. We've got a well too, we don't use
it, we use city water but we could use it. If I needed to, I could put up
a windmill and things like that. I've got all the information.
See, it's the potential you have to build up. Don't be a fanatic, build
up the potential. That doesn't mean getting a generator because some drunk
will drive into a power line and the power will be out for four hours. As
things slow down and finally collapse, we will do very well indeed.
What do you have to buy that you don't make or grow yourself at this point.
Well, we buy most of our food. We give a lot of our garden produce to
our chickens because my wife , Glenda, buys everything. She doesn't buy tomatoes
or squash and next year she'll buy less and less because I will be putting
more things into the garden.
We've got a greenhouse on the side of the house which I'm continually
working on and perfecting. I'm going to be putting out a tape on tire gardens
which takes you all the way from starting the seeds, to getting the tires
and the compost set up. It's all done very cheaply, I might add.
What do you consider to be the most important cause of the decline of society
and civilization today?
Overpopulation and down-breeding. It isn't Clinton. We can make jokes
about him, he's a farce, but he was voted in by the morons of the country.
They may vote him in again or else they'll vote in someone that's just as
stupid, but it doesn't matter. You ought to go back and read my editorial
about Rush Limbaugh. He's an effect too, not a cause. People do truly, sincerely,
honestly deserve the government they get. They always have and they always
Our species has to be up-bred. And it will be because when every civilization
collapses, the weaklings, the lazy and the stupid die off and the hardy are
left. Of course, when they set about building easier ways to survive, if
they permit the lesser beings to survive, which they always do, then there
it will go again. If I were in the position to start the new civilization,
I would make it a law that anyone who was in need of public support would
have to first supply a certificate of sterilization. You've got your jails
to make a guy cool off but anyone who would have to be imprisoned, no matter
what color they were or how much money they had, would be put to sleep like
you would put a dog to sleep. No animosity, just put them to sleep.
Why did they try to keep Jeffrey Dahmer alive? For what purpose? Did you
ever think of that? Why are the people that rob, maim, rape and kill alive?
There's no reason for them to live. If the government is established for
the people, the productive people, and everyone is guaranteed the freedom
to produce for himself and encouraged to do so, it would be like a science
fiction story I once read where everybody had about an acre of land just
to himself and all of the equipment they needed...of course they traded back
and forth but there was no strife, no war, no crime. There would be no need
Would you describe what you think will happen and give everyone a preview
of how bad you think things will get during the height of the future chaos?
In 1980 our national debt was less than a trillion dollars. In 1994, only
fourteen years later, it's four and a half trillion. The interest on the
national debt in 1980 was about 57 billion, by 1995 the interest will be
over 600 billion. With Clinton throwing 30 billion dollars into a silly crime
bill that won't work, and putting about 400 million into Rwanda, about the
same amount to the Cubans and the Haitians (and now 50 billion to the Mexicans)
and you know, a hundred million here and a hundred million there adds up
to real money sooner or later. How long can it go? The interest on the debt
has to be paid, it's like your utilities. If you don't pay your utilities,
you're out on the street in the dark. It has to be paid, and the people that
it has to be paid to are the Japanese, German and British investors in the
country, the World Bank, and so on, and so forth. When America can't come
up with that, they're going to have to cut into the entitlements. They'll
have to cut welfare. Then the cities will burn.
The cities are the centers of intelligence and commerce, and of course
the cities will fail and make the Depression times look like good times indeed,
in comparison. You saw the LA riots, multiply that by hundreds of big cities.
And who knows, maybe the Muslims will finally get their atomic suitcase bomb
and blow up New York.
It will just go and go. The Third World Countries are in total chaos now,
they're all failing. South America is about to be destroyed. All over the
world, this chaos is coming. Just about every government in the world has
turned to a massive welfare system. When they can't take care of their indigents,
the indigents will blame them because they have been brought up with the
idea that they have a right to be taken care of and they will lash out against
those that they feel have failed them.
People are ignorant, they'll destroy the cities. They've already destroyed
enough of their environment that I hope it happens tomorrow, because we've
got to have something left after they go. A person will count himself lucky
if he gets buried.
Do you think it'll lead to wars world wide?
Well, I don't know what they'll have to fight with. Russia, the Ukraine
and Georgia, they might start shooting off missiles. Then, of course, the
Americans would retaliate with a, "what the hell" attitude. It could come
to that. I don't foresee it. I'm not a prophet.
How long do you think it will be until things really begin to collapse?
I would say within five years it will start happening noticeably, but,
according to my studies, I see that it started about eighty years ago. It's
accelerating now. It's like a snowball rolling down the hill, it gets bigger
and bigger and by the time it gets to the town, it's four stories thick.
It seems like the biggest problem facing those of us who want to survive,
is that we don't have the kind of money it takes for the initial investment
of buying property, moving to the country and setting up our survival site.
How much money do you think is really necessary and what do you suggest to
overcome the issue of funding?
I would suggest they buy a set of the Survivor books or especially The
Shoestring Entrepreneur and learn a useful trade or how to make things to
sell. Most people don't do anything. Their whole lives are guided from the
time they get up in the morning to the time they go to bed at night. If they
have a job, they're only doing what they are told, not something of their
own creation. And of course, if they are on welfare, or not working, I
experienced this myself, they get up in the morning, fool around, lay around,
party, then go to bed in the middle of the night. They're hopeless. I started
by business on welfare. Where's the dollar amount there? I was physically
and mentally crippled. I had all kinds of things wrong with me. If a loser
like me can do it, anyone can do it. The thing is, I wasn't a mental loser,
I was well motivated.
People are sold on being taken care of. The Conspiracy Cultists who call
my radio show talk about the New World Order, black helicopters blotting
out the sun, concentration camps being built for the dissidents, and gun
confiscation, because they can't let go of the idea that no matter what,
there will be a system that will support them even in slavery. They would
rather fantasize about being in a concentration camp run by the UN than apply
themselves to their own benefit. The average person who says, "I wouldn't
be a slave", would be. Don't think he wouldn't.
What final words do you have for the future generation of survivalists?
If you don't have anything worthwhile to pass on, pass on.